Saints Row IV SR3 modding SDK resources legal issues?
- Thread starter Bloodjack
- Start date
Corrodias
Generally Awesome
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
As i understand it, we're legally free to insert whatever we want into a game. The only questions are: whether you're creating a "derivative work" under copyright law; and whether a EULA that forbids "modifying files" could be enforced to strip you of your license to run the game. Of course, one of the major problems is that we often aren't just adding; we're modifying, creating derivative work textures, models, and so on. And even if you make something entirely original, you often have to edit a game file to make it load the new data, so does that count as a derivative work? Even if you don't have to modify anything, does the game as a whole count as a derivative work? I'm not clear on that. It would be interesting to see that go to court. That is, interesting, not necessarily good.
Now of course you can't redistribute models, textures, music, and other "assets" from any game, even from SR3 for use in SR4 or from Morrowind for use in Skyrim. That's a clear violation of copyright distribution rights, even though you're not profiting from it. Or ... it could be. The law doesn't lay down specific rules for "fair use", just guidelines. I don't think porting an entire environment from one game to another would qualify as "fair use", though, because of the scale. It would also be interesting to see this go to court, but i suspect the plaintiff would succeed.
I have seen proposals that skirt the distribution problem. You can create tools that export all the necessary data from a copy of the source game on the user's system and import them into the target game. There is nothing being distributed but entirely original code, and as long as it doesn't have to break any encryption (running afoul of the DMCA), it should be entirely legal as far as distribution is concerned. Then, i think you're back to the first paragraph: does the game count as an unauthorized modification of a copyrighted work? For one thing, it takes place only on your computer, and would be infeasible or impossible to prosecute. So there's that. The tool authors might be held liable for "encouraging" copyright infringement. Once again, that would be interesting to see in court, but i anticipate victory for the defense.
There is such a thing as damaging good will between publisher/developer and community. If Volition or Deep Silver wished to prohibit the importation of assets -- even setting aside the issue of distribution -- this forum would shut down any such mods. Oh, and a lawsuit can be expensive and stressful, so there's something to be said for trying to avoid those even if you think you'd win.
Why am i typing all this, when this has been discussed to death on the internet for longer than i can even comprehend? Maybe it's the beer. Wasn't sure if the horse was quite dead, so i had to beat it a little to make sure.
As i understand it, we're legally free to insert whatever we want into a game. The only questions are: whether you're creating a "derivative work" under copyright law; and whether a EULA that forbids "modifying files" could be enforced to strip you of your license to run the game. Of course, one of the major problems is that we often aren't just adding; we're modifying, creating derivative work textures, models, and so on. And even if you make something entirely original, you often have to edit a game file to make it load the new data, so does that count as a derivative work? Even if you don't have to modify anything, does the game as a whole count as a derivative work? I'm not clear on that. It would be interesting to see that go to court. That is, interesting, not necessarily good.
Now of course you can't redistribute models, textures, music, and other "assets" from any game, even from SR3 for use in SR4 or from Morrowind for use in Skyrim. That's a clear violation of copyright distribution rights, even though you're not profiting from it. Or ... it could be. The law doesn't lay down specific rules for "fair use", just guidelines. I don't think porting an entire environment from one game to another would qualify as "fair use", though, because of the scale. It would also be interesting to see this go to court, but i suspect the plaintiff would succeed.
I have seen proposals that skirt the distribution problem. You can create tools that export all the necessary data from a copy of the source game on the user's system and import them into the target game. There is nothing being distributed but entirely original code, and as long as it doesn't have to break any encryption (running afoul of the DMCA), it should be entirely legal as far as distribution is concerned. Then, i think you're back to the first paragraph: does the game count as an unauthorized modification of a copyrighted work? For one thing, it takes place only on your computer, and would be infeasible or impossible to prosecute. So there's that. The tool authors might be held liable for "encouraging" copyright infringement. Once again, that would be interesting to see in court, but i anticipate victory for the defense.
There is such a thing as damaging good will between publisher/developer and community. If Volition or Deep Silver wished to prohibit the importation of assets -- even setting aside the issue of distribution -- this forum would shut down any such mods. Oh, and a lawsuit can be expensive and stressful, so there's something to be said for trying to avoid those even if you think you'd win.
Why am i typing all this, when this has been discussed to death on the internet for longer than i can even comprehend? Maybe it's the beer. Wasn't sure if the horse was quite dead, so i had to beat it a little to make sure.
They should have done it how Tale of Two Wastelands did, required both games installed.
Definitely. There have been mods similar that have worked within Bethesda's EULA. That's what I mean though. It's not a matter of legal or not. It's what the developer says. There is no way to guess, or assume what Volition will or will not allow. They are already far more liberal then I could imagine. In the end we make mods and they tell us when we have gone too far. It is impossible to make a EULA that 100% predicts what types of mods could be created, and Volition, at least appears, to be interested in a more open relationship with authors. We just gotta try our best to not step on Volitions toes, and when we do they'll give us a heads up and we can change it. Easy.
Personally, I'd love to import the clothing and hair add-ons from SR4 to SRTT......logically I'd say that it would not be okay at all....but Volition are some crazy dudes/dudettes.
What if...
1) The mod was released in such a way that required a legal copy of both SR2 and SR3?
or
2) The mod was created and given to DS Volition to sell themselves?
It's possible to do it in a way that would be okay I suppose, but I'm also not sure what you guys are talking about with SR2. SR 2 content is dramatically different then in SRTT/SR4. It's not a matter of importing, it would be rebuilding from the ground up. You would literally be remaking SR2 with content already in SRTT and SR 4, and then be remaking the missions, animations, cut scenes, and so on from scratch. It's like me wondering if I need liability insurance to ride a unicorn to work. However, if we exclude SR 2, I really don't see the point in importing missions from SRTT to SR4 and vice versa.....they are literally the same engine. I can see importing content like clothing cars and hair back and forth, but other then that, SRTT wouldn't really benefit from anything within SR4 engine.....because they are the same engine.
That is the "crux of the biscuit" as Zappa would say. But derivative work is itself a grey area that depends a lot on what the license owner allows.
Personally I just go with developers that are mod friendly. Valve has gone so far to the community side they have changed lives. That has never happened before in the game industry and I love it. Bethesda is friendly and now so is Volition.
Then you have companies like Blizzard who don't officially support modding at all but also don't seem to care about the endless machinima put out about their games. Valve games take all of my mod time but I'm trying to get into SR4 modding because I like the game so much.
So in conclusion, "Screw you Rockstar!"
