World size in SRTT and SRIV

[[V] Knobby]

Do you mean that if we can make custom maps, we can technically make multiple maps and use for example the developer console to load them, but that when the game saves, it won't save the currently loaded map? Or is it simply impossible with the mod tools we get?

That's what we do internally, but I wouldn't hold my breath for making new levels anytime soon. The gamesave system would probably just have a kitten and fall over. I'm not sure what the result would be if you tried to load the save. Loading a save doesn't load a level as the system doesn't really know about levels, so you could load any save from any level in any level. It could be pretty gnarly or it could just be cool.

Or, on a more time consuming note, we use the hidden volumes method to hide one city and unhide the next? Well, that would mean we as modders need to have a lot of time scripting that and I don't know how easy it is to modify the AI pathing and other interactive objects like cribs to match the other maps. This is only something I wonder about, not something we really need but it would be nice.

I wouldn't wish using the hidden volume stuff on my worst enemy and I wrote the system. It is extremely complicated and involves lots of occluders and tricks to hide the city if that is desired. You'd need access to pathing, collision and everything else to make new worlds as well, which is why I warn that it won't be anytime soon.

On another side-note, I don't think the world is big enough to support a map like GTA San Andreas, is it? Or Just Cause 2 if I may exaggerate? I'm not sure how those coordinates fit in real-world measurements. If we use the default character size as reference, what are the width, length and height in kilometers (I work with the metric system)?

I'm not sure how big those worlds are, but I believe our units are meters.

 

[nivao]

Then I'll just wait until (or if) we can modify the map.

By the way, something that has been bugging me ever since GTA: why are such open world games always on an island in an infinite ocean (or seemingly in Saints Row due to the message). This happens with all 3D GTA games and Saints Row, but not with, for example, Mercenaries or Mafia (although in Mafia you can't fly or use boats). This links back to my first question if it is possible to add terrain outside the gameplay borders to give the illusion that the city is part of the mainland.

 

[Aucella]

I really hope that at the very least it will be possible to get Stilwater made on Havok with sufficient modding. That's the ultimate dream of every SR player for the new games. It'd be really disheartening if by design the new engine wouldn't allow Stilwater to fit.

 

[nivao]

I really hope that at the very least it will be possible to get Stilwater made on Havok with sufficient modding. That's the ultimate dream of every SR player for the new games. It'd be really disheartening if by design the new engine wouldn't allow Stilwater to fit.

I think it is easily possible to have Stillwater in the game, just not next Steelport. It has to completely replace Steelport. As Knobby stated, I may not be possible to have multiple separate levels. Nor will it be possible to fit both cities next to each other as the world is too small for that.

 

[Aucella]

It's not like anybody would miss Steelport anyway . The worst part of these last two games is definitely the city itself.

 

[Gondar]

The alternative to an infinite ocean that few will attempt is common borders and something like Bethesda's solution of "You can't go this way. Turn back" at the map edges. It's a little immersion breaking, instead of the lesser break of going a few dozen k out into random featureless ocean, which as noted is something few will attempt in the first place. You go "Huh, well, ocean, whatever" instead of "hey, that road is RIGHT THERE I want to see where it goes!"

As for saves not assuming a map, hmm.. is it feasible to force a specific location on a specific map on load, as opposed to "where the player was give or take"? Ignoring mid-mission saves anyways.. those might have to be handled specially. Using SR4 as an example, imagine if every load you were stuffed on the ship again. I know why that'd piss some people off, but if it'd be part of sanity checking of a mod to make sure you're ALWAYS on one map in a known location (where you can get to other maps easily) I think people could put up with it. Because it seems a decent workaround.. multiple maps, and when you're consistently playing the game has no issue since you're not save/loading.. then when you DO save/load, the coordinate data is mostly ignored when the game goes and sticks you in the 'hub area'.
Seems a decent enough workaround if we can get multiple maps out of the deal, and not have to deal with occlusion (some modders will.. people are VERY persistent). Of course we'll have to wait for the tools to do all of that, but if they come, it will come up.

 

[[V] Knobby]

The alternative to an infinite ocean that few will attempt is common borders and something like Bethesda's solution of "You can't go this way. Turn back" at the map edges. It's a little immersion breaking, instead of the lesser break of going a few dozen k out into random featureless ocean, which as noted is something few will attempt in the first place. You go "Huh, well, ocean, whatever" instead of "hey, that road is RIGHT THERE I want to see where it goes!"

As for saves not assuming a map, hmm.. is it feasible to force a specific location on a specific map on load, as opposed to "where the player was give or take"? Ignoring mid-mission saves anyways.. those might have to be handled specially. Using SR4 as an example, imagine if every load you were stuffed on the ship again. I know why that'd piss some people off, but if it'd be part of sanity checking of a mod to make sure you're ALWAYS on one map in a known location (where you can get to other maps easily) I think people could put up with it. Because it seems a decent workaround.. multiple maps, and when you're consistently playing the game has no issue since you're not save/loading.. then when you DO save/load, the coordinate data is mostly ignored when the game goes and sticks you in the 'hub area'.
Seems a decent enough workaround if we can get multiple maps out of the deal, and not have to deal with occlusion (some modders will.. people are VERY persistent). Of course we'll have to wait for the tools to do all of that, but if they come, it will come up.

The space ship is part of the sr4 city map though, it isn't a map of its own. I get what you're saying though and something would obviously need to be done. We typically send you to the closest safehouse or something when you load a save and I assume we could make that choice differently, but now we're talking about changing game code to support multiple worlds which we internally determined would be a serious rabbit hole. I could totally see this working if you didn't really care where you ended up in the world though, but it is a ways off.

 

[Gondar]

Hm. Drat. I was hoping it was something more simple like a loading script, and we could define 'closest safehouse' to be 'map x, this point'.

If it's a game code thing it's too bad. We might end up going to layer-cake mods to handle stuff above and below each other. Well, thanks for the reply at least.

 

[nivao]

The alternative to an infinite ocean that few will attempt is common borders and something like Bethesda's solution of "You can't go this way. Turn back" at the map edges. It's a little immersion breaking, instead of the lesser break of going a few dozen k out into random featureless ocean, which as noted is something few will attempt in the first place. You go "Huh, well, ocean, whatever" instead of "hey, that road is RIGHT THERE I want to see where it goes!"

As for saves not assuming a map, hmm.. is it feasible to force a specific location on a specific map on load, as opposed to "where the player was give or take"? Ignoring mid-mission saves anyways.. those might have to be handled specially. Using SR4 as an example, imagine if every load you were stuffed on the ship again. I know why that'd piss some people off, but if it'd be part of sanity checking of a mod to make sure you're ALWAYS on one map in a known location (where you can get to other maps easily) I think people could put up with it. Because it seems a decent workaround.. multiple maps, and when you're consistently playing the game has no issue since you're not save/loading.. then when you DO save/load, the coordinate data is mostly ignored when the game goes and sticks you in the 'hub area'.
Seems a decent enough workaround if we can get multiple maps out of the deal, and not have to deal with occlusion (some modders will.. people are VERY persistent). Of course we'll have to wait for the tools to do all of that, but if they come, it will come up.

Saints Row has the "You can't go this way" message which is known as "The Saints need you in Steelport" and the plane or boat turns around. The map edges would obviously be marked, like with a (funny) sign that says for example "You're leaving Steelport. Turn around." The large ocean, or the fact that the city is a weird looking island is what breaks my immersion. When I'm driving, that doesn't happen, but when I'm flying or in a boat, it happens. Games such as Mercenaries and Mafia have borders that extends beyond the gameplay area. In Mercenaries, you lose satellite coverage and the screen begins to distort when you pass the borders until you can't see anything anymore. In Mafia, you simply have invisible borders which isn't so bad. It's not so much that people won't actually fly out in the ocean to find the borders, it's more of a realism thing. I feel the city is just a bit ugly in this way. In GTA San Andreas it's a bit different since the island is very big with different terrains and three cities. Unfortunately, looking at the world size Knobby gave, a map like San Andreas wouldn't fit.