Does Volition/THQ support the modding community?

Volition were much more friendly towards us when we were initially modding SR2 - they gave us a forum on saintsrow.com, but no technical assistance at all.

We were asked about the character upload issue unofficially by a developer, not by Volition officially.

For SRTT, we have had no help and they actively remove modding threads on saintsrow.com, it seems.

(Not true, Volition? Register here and prove me wrong! I know some of you browse here at work, I can see your IPs in my logs! :p)
 
Usually the only reason a company supports the modding commmunity is if they are trying to sell their game engine to 3rd party developers. By allowing modding it's free advertising for the engines capabilities. The only exceptions I can think of are Bethesda and Runic games. However as less companies are creating their own engines and using 3rd party engines or those that do create their own engines won't share to gain a competitive edge less and less games are becoming modable.

Even those that do allow modding sometimes get caught in some stupid journalist mass hysteria like when the first nude mod came out for Oblivion and people were calling for the game to be taken off the shelves and reclassified (another hot coffee). Unfortunately Bethesda's response was to call the modders hackers which caused a temporary rift between Bethesda and the modding community.

The problem is big game companies have a lot of lawyers and they will advise the company that the company could be vicariously liable for any modded material. Therefore the safe thing to do is just not to allow it. (I mean there are people trying to start a class action lawsuit against Blizzard because Diablo 3 is a bit buggy and unplayabley laggy during peak hours). Basically there are a lot of dicks out there trying to make a fast buck and the game companies are just trying to protect themselves.

Nowadays the best you can hope for is that a gaming company turns a blind eye to any modding (it's usually against a game's EULA) and doesn't actively close down modding websites.
 
Really it depends on what the game modded is. Bethesda games are 100% singleplayer.. so they know modding adds to the replay value. (Elder Scrolls Online will naturally have a zero-hacking policy being an MMO, and will discourage ANY modding, although I imagine they'll turn a semi-blind eye to stuff that doesn't change anything but aesthetics and moreso doesn't change balance either like say a special targetting or wallhack mod would). Dragon Age Origins was singleplayer only and was based off the legacy of Neverwinter Nights so it had a toolset. Said NWN was designed from the ground-up to be a platform FOR modding and multiplayer play, having little itself, so in turn of course it had a toolset. Rockstar was nice and allowed modding (since the pc ports were far superior to the console versions, you could tell they enjoyed making them and having mods would sell them even better). Then of course Hot Coffee hit, and they had to change policy and are anti-modding.

Valve LOVES modding, releasing the full set of tools and some source. Part of that is because they can sell the engine, but part of that is they watch the mod community very carefully, and when they see something good will buy it up and use the people to make a commercial game. In fact, Valve themselves made the Half Life games, and I think (but aren't sure of) Left 4 Dead 1 and 2. However, Portal? A mod. (Portal 2 was in house by people who made the first mod). TF2? Based on the TFC mod that was made by people they hired. Counterstrike? Same. The list goes on. Really, almost all the games 'they' made were made by finding the right people via mods made, and hiring them.

Sadly, Valve is an exception. They know what they're doing amazingly, no one else would have thought of something like Steam that started as a system forced with HL2 (which was the reason it took off, bundling it with a must-have game). And now? We're modding a game that is ONLY on Steam. You have to use Steam, and then you see the other stuff sold, and go "Well, maybe this, it's on sale" and next thing you know you have 3 pages of games library and have sunk hundreds of dollars in. Plus, they can put money into the games no one expects.. it's cheap for them to take a finished indie game and put it in the catalogue, push it a bit. It sells well, the developers make another, or might even be hired. Unfortunately the other publishers play catch-up, like Origin which is really a place for EA stuff only, and has nothing to recommend it.

So yeah. Volition doesn't support mods, but they do in a way by turning a blind eye. There's lots of developers and publishers who do worse (Squaresoft comes to mind) and the list who actively support is shrinking (well, for non-indie devs. Indie devs haven't hit the point a publisher controls them or they worry about getting a bad rep among publishers). Sure Volition people might read this forum (hi guys! :D ) but they all tend to have NDAs and can't talk unless official policy suddenly said "Ok, allow modding". The best we could hope for would be a change in policies (doubtful) or someone risking their job with a very careful internal leak (like say a piece of sourcecode from their tool that turns the xtbls into compressed binary data files, so we can see how it's laid out). That'd have to be done in a way that it couldn' be traced back, and considering all it would take is one mistake here of someone saying "thanks to someone at Volition for this data" to make an internal hunt for the leaker and then a simple log-check would find them and they'd be fired and sued for breach of NDA and possible corporate espionage (sure it's not, but they'd throw that as an additional charge to try to up the awarded fees and any settlement)... yeah. I doubt it'll happen.

Too bad. We can probably figure out a lot eventually, but a great deal may well be packed into the exe and untouchable, which isn't uncommon when they don't intend the game to have to be moddable (various things in how it works like the difficult asm indexing of everything, the use of binary compressed files, lack of some calls, the fact that the preload doesn't understand the DLC packs.. all suggests such) so we're not gonna get too far with a lot sadly.

Who knows, maybe SR4 will be semi-moddable. THe problem nowadays is many publishers go for consoles exclusively (with lazy port at best), and consoles can't do modding, so you're only promoting a small section of your profits for a smaller increase in sales, yet requiring a lot of time to change design if it's not moddable. (Yeah, doesn't say anything about just releasing internal file breakdown, but eh)
 
Rockstar USED to support the modding community.

Thats just the thing, alot of companies don't like the modding community because they want consumers to BUY their DLC and expansion packs and stuff.

They've mostly come to quiet down and sort of conceded defeat
And that why there hasn't been a update to patch 1.0.8.0 forever.

A better comparison would be Red Dead Redemption, were it out for PC
Thats why they never released it for PC.
 
Remember "Garry's Mod" was just independent and then "Valve" decided to distribute it on Steam which the developer just sends the updates to Valve to release.
No, Team Garry (who make Garry's Mod) decided to go commercial. Valve did not decide to suddenly distribute it.
 
Minimaul said:
No it wasn't. Valve hired the team that made the free indie game Narbacular Drop, and they (along with the rest of Valve) then made Portal.
Sort of what I meant. It was based heavily on the game, which then was hired and expanded. It's not like Valve just tool a free mod in TFC and stuffed it on their system for sale. They hired the people and got them to develop a new version. In the case of Portal, it was the team plus Valve who did it. Then for Portal 2, it was the same plus the team from that one game I can't recall that dealt with the paints that became the big thing of Portal 2. My point is many of their games are very heavily inspired by other people's works, who then get hired to redesign the game with proper team and Valve design ethos (notably polish it to a shine)

I would be interested in Valve buying out Volition to work with, but yeah, they don't buy out companies.. not yet. They hire developers of mods to make a game from. Volition is big-name as it goes. Plus, being with THQ means they're not gonna be bought out by anyone, unless someone makes an offer. The bad news is the only publisher I can see doing something like that is EA.. and if you thought their DLC-mania was bad now...:eek:
 
The bad news is the only publisher I can see doing something like that is EA.. and if you thought their DLC-mania was bad now...:eek:
'
lol.....dlc mania....sounds like a game, "DLC Will RULE YOU! Can you smell what the DLC is cookin'?! DLC with the DDT off the top of the rip off list! DLC is going completely insane tonight, can you believe the refs are letting this go on?!"
 
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