Oh I agree, I like how the Boss, while still a bit of a jerk, isn't as crazy as he/she used to be.
I feel bad about Vogel
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It is not about being crazy in the head, it is about putting people in their place. The Boss has endured too much pain and proven himself too many times to take shit from wannabes such as Kinzie, Matt, Pierce, Asha Odekar and Shaundi. You see, the characters who actually deserve respect for their backstory (Benjamin King and Johnny Gat) are the only ones who treat you right.
I'm sure one of the husks that I've killed numerous times.the real question is... what happened to Jaime?
Dane I'm sure hated how she let crap go through the door at times like Maero storming in and destroying his things.
If it wasn't for Kinzie, Zinyak would be winning everything. Kinzie was the Indispensable Woman on the main plot of SR4 -- without her, you weren't getting anywhere. (Theoretically maybe Matt could have done her job -- but Matt needed your help to escape, and she didn't.) The Boss is man enough to admit when somebody else's contribution was equally as vital as their own to saving the entire damned human race, and apparently that's enough for the Boss to go 'OK, you've earned a free punch'.
Kinzie has as much right to punch you in the face as Johnny Gat does, and for the same reason -- if it weren't for her, just like if it weren't for him, you'd all be dead. (Gat saving you all in the opening sequence of SR3, Kinzie doing the same in the first act of SR4.)
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Kinzie is a nobody. Shaundi already dealt with advanced hacking in Saints Row 2 (as seen in Assault on Precint 31). And no, she is not on the same level as Johnny Gat, and much less The Boss, who is simply too much of an improvisator and guerrilla tactician to let a wannabe such as Kinzie Kensington take him down. You know what I've noticed throughout the Saints Row series? With each installment, the boss becomes more and more of a dumbass in order to let failures of characters such as Kinzie and Pierce take the leading role and appeal to casual markets, which are more interested in seeing a strong female character (albeit a totally stereotyped, cliched, unecessary, mundane one) call the shots over actual narrative substance. You think Kinzie saved the boss? Give me a break, the protagonist is the type of leader who defeats four armed guys in a car while drugged and unarmed, or dozens of monster-trucks mounted with weapons while on foot. He actually improvises and is not limited to one type of attack. Sooner of later, he would leave the simulation as well, just like Kinzie did, and free the other Saints. I wish Lin was alive to teach this kid a lesson.
Errr, are you saying 'In my opinion, Kinzie should have been written as a nobody', or are you saying 'in the Saint's Row canon that exists, Kinzie is a nobody'? Because door #1 would be your personal preference, which, y'know, we all have. Door #2, on the other hand, is arguing with the actual plot of the game as its been written. Unless the definition of 'a nobody' stretches to cover 'someone who saved your life when nobody else was going to do it' and 'somebody who was instrumental in finding and aiming you at multiple plot coupons', then she isn't a nobody, because those things actually did happen in the game even if you didn't like them happening.
I'm thinking that the hacking in that mission was on a slightly different level than, oh, breaking yourself out of the Matrix after being locked inside of it, and then solo'ing your way across the inside of an enemy fortress, stealing a spaceship, and then hacking an alien mainframe encoded in a language you've never seen before that day to break multiple other people out of the Matrix as well.
Also, Shaundi starts off SR4 the same place everybody else starts off in -- locked inside their own virtual reality trap. She didn't get herself out of it.
Note: I like Shaundi. I've always liked Shaundi. I'd like it if they gave her more to do, too. But what I like and don't like doesn't change what's already been written into canon, and what's been written is 'she is not remotely as good a hacker as Kinzie is'. Kinzie is to hacking as Johnny Gat is to murdering; she is the #1 NPC in her specialty.
In personal badass? Of course not. Kinzie's going to out-murder Johnny Gat the same day he out-programs her on a computer, the second Tuesday of never.
'On the same level', in this context, meant 'you owe her equally as big as you owe Johnny' -- which you do, because she's done the same thing for you that Johnny Gat did. Which is, 'save your ass and the asses of everybody with you at the time'. She did do that in SR4, because if she hadn't been there you'd all still be locked inside the Zin matrix, just like if Johnny hadn't been in SR3, you'd be dead on Phillipe's plane.
Taking down the Boss is not actually impossible, seeing as how it happens at least once per game. Keeping the Boss down is much harder, yes, but seriously, how often has the Boss woken up in some villain's torture dungeon? And shit, there's at least two occasions where if an NPC hadn't bailed you out, you'd have died in that torture dungeon... I just named both of them.
That complaint would make more sense if the Boss was not equally as likely to be female as male. I mean, shit, Russian Lady Boss is the only boss I ever play SR3 with, because I love her style. If 'the market' wants a 'strong female character' as centerpiece, all they need to do is move the slider to 'female' during chargen.
Yup! You were not going anywhere without Kinzie to hack you an exit. You didn't even know where you were.
That same type of simulation held Johnny Gat prisoner for years. I'm pretty sure the Boss would not have been leaving it anytime soon without help, especially given that they're so ignorant of computers that they need an assistant to help them program their VCR.
An odd thing to say after we just spent an entire game hanging out with dead people.
The Boss (who I will refer to as male for continuity's sake) does not owe Kinzie nothing, since he saved her just as many times as she "saved" him (from the Deckers in Saints Row: The Third and from her own simulation in Saints Row IV). When Kinzie "nobody" Kensington punched him in the face, Matt Miller had already been recruited, so killing her right there would not make a difference. Like I said, Saints Row is becoming more and more a game about ordinary Joe as president. In order to give the supporting characters relevance, Volition turned our protagonist (be it male or female) into a "pathethic, weak-minded fool", in Killbane's words.
Guesses from both sides will not give us any facts. We do not know whether the Boss would escape from the simulation or from Phillipe Loren's plane without Kinzie's or Johnny Gat's "help", respectively, though the fact he has endured an yacht explosion at point blank and multiple ambushes from both the Sons of Samedi and the Brotherhood alone makes me believe he would be more than capable of this task. Heck, he becomes Mephisto personified if we include everything he has done in the open world.
Kinzie Kensington is omniscient in the virtual world, but that would not save her from being caught and slaughtered by the Boss (even as stupid as he/she is). Craftiness overpowers proficiency with a computer any day of the week.
Guesses from both sides will not give us any facts. We do not know whether the Boss would escape from the simulation or from Phillipe Loren's plane without Kinzie's or Johnny Gat's "help", respectively, though the fact he has endured an yacht explosion at point blank and multiple ambushes from both the Sons of Samedi and the Brotherhood alone makes me believe he would be more than capable of this task. Heck, he becomes Mephisto personified if we include everything he has done in the open world.
Kinzie Kensington is omniscient in the virtual world, but that would not save her from being caught and slaughtered by the Boss (even as stupid as he/she is). Craftiness overpowers proficiency with a computer any day of the week.
'I ignore your reality and substitute my own' works as a tagline for the Mythbusters, but its less successful as a debate tactic.
By that exact same logic you don't owe Johnny Gat anything, because you saved his life back in the open of SR2. But of course that's not how it works.
Sure, if you accept an interpretation of the Boss as a complete and total shitheel who feels no loyalty to or bonds to anyone or anything outside of 'is this person still useful to me right now'.
Are you sure you're not talking about Zinyak or Satan here?
Ah, so, basically, in the 'murderous psychopath' vs. 'puckish rogue' debate, you're preferring the first one.
Well, your choice, but Volition clearly does not agree with you and has not for the past several games.
Errr, what happened in the game is what happened in the game, not "a guess". What you are doing here is the logical fallacy known as "Argument From Ignorance", where a premise must automatically be assumed to be true for no reason other than it has yet to be absolutely proven false.
Which, um, no. By that same "logic" I must therefore be a purple telekinetic unicorn, simply because you have no proof that I am not one. (For the record: not actually a unicorn, purple, or telekinetic.) I'm on pretty solid ground when I say 'the author's intent was to write the scene this way' after the scene in question has already been written and published.
You, on the other hand, are "just guessing" when you say 'no, the Boss would totally have done this thing later if that other thing hadn't happened'. Dude, that's your fan fiction talking. Which, um, OK, sure, if you like it, you like it. But its just fanfic, its not canon, and it doesn't get to have equal weight to canon.
And now you disrespect Johnny Gat's contributions? Man, what kind of Saints Row fandom is this?
Ironically, its Johnny Gat who has the option of ending up as the King of Hell, not the Boss. He merely has to settle for being God-Emperor of the Known Galaxy.
Well, no. But that wasn't the question we were asking. 'Can the Boss beat X in a fight' is a question that is answered 'Johnny Gat, maybe. Everybody else he knows, definitely'. But there's more to good leadership than 'Can I kill this guy if he backtalks to me', and we spend every Saint's Row game beating villains because they don't understand this.
To circle back to the original topic, 'why the fuck would the Boss accept Kinzie's punching him in the face without murdering her, the answer is 'because she's good at her job, the Boss acknowledges that her contributions have saved his ass at least once, she actually was right in that argument they were having, and most importantly, because the Boss is not a team-killing asshole'.
I referred to the Boss as male because he was male in the first Saints Row, but how would you know...
The difference between the relationship with Johnny Gat is that he actually respects you, whereas Kinzie Kensington thinks she has the right to punch the Boss in the face after he made a joke about poodle skirt. She was the ignorant one in that discussion.
Instead of turning the Boss into a "puckish rogue" (which to me looks more like a brainwashed dummy), Volition could have created supporting characters who weren't so low in the food chain. All of them treat the Boss as a "playa" because that's what he was turned into in Saints Row: The Third.
Kinzie Kensington saving the Boss is just as canon as what he has accomplished in the past. I don't know if you visit comic book battle forums, but feats that show the character's full potential actually mean more than an actual fight between the opponents, since PIS (plot induced stupidity) can turn any powerhouse into a street-level thug. See Iron Man defeating Magneto, or Hulk defeating Ghost Rider, for example. That just happened because the writers wanted it to happen, with no actual backstory to support those victories.
Peace, Boba Fett.
The difference between the relationship with Johnny Gat is that he actually respects you, whereas Kinzie Kensington thinks she has the right to punch the Boss in the face after he made a joke about poodle skirt. She was the ignorant one in that discussion.
Instead of turning the Boss into a "puckish rogue" (which to me looks more like a brainwashed dummy), Volition could have created supporting characters who weren't so low in the food chain. All of them treat the Boss as a "playa" because that's what he was turned into in Saints Row: The Third.
Kinzie Kensington saving the Boss is just as canon as what he has accomplished in the past. I don't know if you visit comic book battle forums, but feats that show the character's full potential actually mean more than an actual fight between the opponents, since PIS (plot induced stupidity) can turn any powerhouse into a street-level thug. See Iron Man defeating Magneto, or Hulk defeating Ghost Rider, for example. That just happened because the writers wanted it to happen, with no actual backstory to support those victories.
Peace, Boba Fett.
I pretty much see the boss as myself (mainly as I make the protagonist look like me everytime I can). I see her in the most simplistic of ways.
Leave her and her friends alone while they go about their business, and you're good. Mess with her or her friends and she will make your life a living hell and wish you never crossed the Saints. I don't see a psychopatic lunatic because in these games I mainly go after my enemies.
Hell, even in SR3 the most killed in my stats from now until forever would always be Morningstar for what they did to Johnny.