I feel bad about Vogel

I referred to the Boss as male because he was male in the first Saints Row, but how would you know...:cool:
Well, that escalated quickly. For the record, I am entirely aware that the Boss has a default gender in SR1. I just ignore it because in SR2 you can be female and nobody mentions that you've had a gender change, which you think they'd notice, so, 'male only' in SR1 is due to limitations of the game engine and not necessarily the actual in-game storyline or the authors' intent.

The difference between the relationship with Johnny Gat is that he actually respects you, whereas Kinzie Kensington thinks she has the right to punch the Boss in the face after he made a joke about poodle skirt.
After she specifically asked you not to, and made it plain that she was really sensitive about it. Respect goes both ways in a friendship -- if you don't respect someone, you get the same lack of respect back. This is... remarkably similar to how the Boss treats people, so, give them points for not being a hypocrite when Kinzie acts the same way towards them.

Instead of turning the Boss into a "puckish rogue" (which to me looks more like a brainwashed dummy), Volition could have created supporting characters who weren't so low in the food chain.
Again, there is more about interpersonal relationships than 'who can kill who'. Seriously, orcs have more sophisticated pack dynamics than this. You're making the Saints sound like a collection of brain-dead animals.

Kinzie Kensington saving the Boss is just as canon as what he has accomplished in the past. I don't know if you visit comic book battle forums
I do, and rule #1 of those forums generally tends to be 'Discard obvious outliers if they are single data points that just don't fit jibe with the rest of the body of work', aka 'the Spider-Man vs. Firelord rule'. And rule #2 is 'for purposes of deciding who'd win a fight, ignore all in-character behavior', aka the 'bloodlust' rule.

Of course, rule #2 is exactly what we're not doing here, because we're ultimately discussing "is it in-character for the Boss to accept being punched in the face by Kinzie without then immediately killing her". So, starting out with the assumption 'let's ignore all in-character behavior' is paradoxical here, as what we're arguing about in the first place is characterization.

So, why didn't the Boss kill Kinzie when she punched him? The answer is "the Boss will demonstrably put up with a lot of shit from their crew so long as they stay a) loyal b) good at their jobs and c) don't disobey direct orders during crunch time." They don't have to be respectful and salute, they just have to do their jobs. As long as they do that, the Boss doesn't really care what else they do.

There's also that the Boss has a ridiculously high pain tolerance and doesn't really cry just because someone hit him.

There's also that Kinzie uses violence as foreplay. *g*

But really, the Boss sees the world in two categories of people -- Saints and Everybody Else. People in category #2 don't get upside the Boss' face without retribution. People in category #1, on the other hand, get tons of slack, and always have. Kinzie's a Saint, so, the Boss putting up with her without violence hardly surprises me. The Boss is nowhere near so insecure that he can't handle a little talking back from their inner circle without losing it.

So, could the Boss kill Kinzie? Um, yeah. That goes without saying. Would the Boss kill Kinzie? Not for anything she's done so far -- she'd have to betray the Saints all Dex style to get put on a death list.

I can't even tell for sure what your argument is anymore, but as near as I can guess its 'the only reason the Boss has to not kill Kinzie is if he didn't think he could take her, which is stupid'. While the Boss certainly thinks he could take her -- and unless the fight is occurring at a distance of like 1000 miles away, be entirely right -- the second half of that assumption is sillypants. The Boss is nowhere near that horrible re: impulse control. Frig, Johnny Gat isn't that bad at impulse control, and Johnny's lack of impulse control is literally a legend in Hell itself.
 
Well, that escalated quickly. For the record, I am entirely aware that the Boss has a default gender in SR1. I just ignore it because in SR2 you can be female and nobody mentions that you've had a gender change, which you think they'd notice, so, 'male only' in SR1 is due to limitations of the game engine and not necessarily the actual in-game storyline or the authors' intent.


After she specifically asked you not to, and made it plain that she was really sensitive about it. Respect goes both ways in a friendship -- if you don't respect someone, you get the same lack of respect back. This is... remarkably similar to how the Boss treats people, so, give them points for not being a hypocrite when Kinzie acts the same way towards them.


Again, there is more about interpersonal relationships than 'who can kill who'. Seriously, orcs have more sophisticated pack dynamics than this. You're making the Saints sound like a collection of brain-dead animals.


I do, and rule #1 of those forums generally tends to be 'Discard obvious outliers if they are single data points that just don't fit jibe with the rest of the body of work', aka 'the Spider-Man vs. Firelord rule'. And rule #2 is 'for purposes of deciding who'd win a fight, ignore all in-character behavior', aka the 'bloodlust' rule.

Of course, rule #2 is exactly what we're not doing here, because we're ultimately discussing "is it in-character for the Boss to accept being punched in the face by Kinzie without then immediately killing her". So, starting out with the assumption 'let's ignore all in-character behavior' is paradoxical here, as what we're arguing about in the first place is characterization.

So, why didn't the Boss kill Kinzie when she punched him? The answer is "the Boss will demonstrably put up with a lot of shit from their crew so long as they stay a) loyal b) good at their jobs and c) don't disobey direct orders during crunch time." They don't have to be respectful and salute, they just have to do their jobs. As long as they do that, the Boss doesn't really care what else they do.

There's also that the Boss has a ridiculously high pain tolerance and doesn't really cry just because someone hit him.

There's also that Kinzie uses violence as foreplay. *g*

But really, the Boss sees the world in two categories of people -- Saints and Everybody Else. People in category #2 don't get upside the Boss' face without retribution. People in category #1, on the other hand, get tons of slack, and always have. Kinzie's a Saint, so, the Boss putting up with her without violence hardly surprises me. The Boss is nowhere near so insecure that he can't handle a little talking back from their inner circle without losing it.

So, could the Boss kill Kinzie? Um, yeah. That goes without saying. Would the Boss kill Kinzie? Not for anything she's done so far -- she'd have to betray the Saints all Dex style to get put on a death list.

I can't even tell for sure what your argument is anymore, but as near as I can guess its 'the only reason the Boss has to not kill Kinzie is if he didn't think he could take her, which is stupid'. While the Boss certainly thinks he could take her -- and unless the fight is occurring at a distance of like 1000 miles away, be entirely right -- the second half of that assumption is sillypants. The Boss is nowhere near that horrible re: impulse control. Frig, Johnny Gat isn't that bad at impulse control, and Johnny's lack of impulse control is literally a legend in Hell itself.

If you look at the whole situation with Kinzie and Boss in SRIV, from since the simulation to the end, they seem to have somewhat of a sibling situation to me.
Like two sisters (or brother/sister I guess, never played male so I don't know how different the convos would be) that like to have fun together, argue together, but when it comes to someone harming the other , they lash out to make sure the other is okay.
Same with Gat and Boss since SR1 from how Boss saved Gat many times and helped him on some situations.
Julius and Dex pretty much went overboard as they didn't just playfully attack. One bombs you and one tries to kill you flat out.

With the whole sibling look, I would say Boss sees Gat, Pierce, and Kinzie somewhat close as family by how they interact. The others don't seem as close to the boss as those 3. Only other one that seem to come close would've been Carlos.
 
The Boss also seems close to Benjamin King, but its less of a family vibe there than it is how a professor and a former student would get along after the student's graduated and become a professional colleague of the professor. And yeah, while you're not that close to Kinzie in SR3 -- she's still 'outer circle' then, down alongside people like Angel and Viola -- by SR4 she's become inner circle, apparently on sheer force of competence. Then again, 'she's so brilliant that her bosses were willing to put up with her abrasive personality just to keep getting the brilliance part' is pretty much Kinzie's entire life story, so, that's hardly surprising.

And she actually is funny as hell once you get to know her, its just, yeah, getting to know her is a bit of a chore. I think the TVTropes that describes her best is "Bunny Ears Lawyer".
 
The boss was male in Saints Row. I will not discuss that. Now you are writing fan fiction.;)

Joking about poodle skirt will never be a good enough reason to get your face punched. I wonder what would happen if someone joked about stripper clothing with the Boss then.:rolleyes: To put it simply: Kinzie mocks the Boss in nearly all missions, which gives him/her the right to retort, sooner or later.

And no feats I said previously are above the Boss' current capacity. He/she would still slaughter the entire Brotherhood, Sons of Samedi and the Masako unity alone, with a baseball bat.
 
The boss was male in Saints Row. I will not discuss that. Now you are writing fan fiction.;)

Joking about poodle skirt will never be a good enough reason to get your face punched. I wonder what would happen if someone joked about stripper clothing with the Boss then.:rolleyes: To put it simply: Kinzie mocks the Boss in nearly all missions, which gives him/her the right to retort, sooner or later.

And no feats I said previously are above the Boss' current capacity. He/she would still slaughter the entire Brotherhood, Sons of Samedi and the Masako unity alone, with a baseball bat.
Well the main character to me is female so you can say whichever you want.
Romance Kinzie whenever you want and she still punches you in the face too. So I doubt if she didn't get hit then, she wasn't going to for the skirt.
Next is the amount of times Boss joked on Kinzie too for being antisocial, her "tech babble", her being into weird crap and so on. Kinzie just lashes back too. So I say the insults are 50/50. The one that's not 50/50 is mainly with Pierce as he never lash back and just takes it unless it's from Shaundi.
Also, I never remember Boss ever killing anyone in the saints. Ex saints yes, but not Saints. Unless you want to count Carlos who was pretty much dying and unable to save at all.
 
The boss was male in Saints Row. I will not discuss that. Now you are writing fan fiction.;)

Joking about poodle skirt will never be a good enough reason to get your face punched. I wonder what would happen if someone joked about stripper clothing with the Boss then.:rolleyes: To put it simply: Kinzie mocks the Boss in nearly all missions, which gives him/her the right to retort, sooner or later.

And no feats I said previously are above the Boss' current capacity. He/she would still slaughter the entire Brotherhood, Sons of Samedi and the Masako unity alone, with a baseball bat.
So...you want the Boss to flat out murder Kinzie because she socked him/her? Why? Considering that Kinzie literally has the weight of humanity on her shoulders (she and Matt are the only ones capable of freeing people from their simulations, and they really don't want to get the humans they have saved horribly killed off), it's possible the Boss half-way understands the immense pressure she's under and allows her to rail on him/her both physically and verbally to get some of the steam off.

And the Boss also likely figured, 'Yeah, I probably deserved that' because just seconds before, the Boss made one final dig about the skirt after Kinzie told him/her not to even mention what had happened in the simulation.

Also, remember what the Boss told Asha in her simulation? The Saints are basically his/her family, he/she loves them so much that "I'd take a bullet for any one of them." So no, he/she is not about to murder Kinzie just because she planted her fist firmly into his/her jaw. Considering the Boss has acted way worst, and considering that Kinzie has to basically hold back the entire Zinyak army from eviscerating what's left of humanity, I think the Boss can forgive a few punches. As others said before, so long as Kinzie does her job well and doesn't attempt to betray and kill the Boss and/or any member of the Boss' crew, the Boss will do everything in his/her power to protect Kinzie, even if it means jumping in front of a bullet meant for her. Hey, the Boss said it, not me.
 
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Kinzie a nobody? Give me a chuffing break. In Saints Row IV she singlehandly escapes alien captivity herself, steals a spaceship and then rescues both the President and the Vice President. Then she helps the President/Boss get all the other Saints out of the simulation and helps the Boss get Johnny Gat back even though doing so risks them being detected by Zinyak.

The issue of Kinzie punching the Boss and why they did nothing in response has been debated time and time again by Saints fans and there is one glaringly obvious reason why they let her get away with it which is in the game's narrative itself. It's the the way the Boss treats Kinzie, as someone who they regard as so important and as a close and loyal friend who they couldn't bare to lose.

This is obviously demonstrated in several points in the game first in the White House scene when Kinzie is first abducted and the Boss yells "KINZIE NO" and runs to try and save her. Then secondly during the Kinzie Gambit when after Kinzie is recaptured by Zinyak the Boss is distressed and angry and is desperate to save her. This demonstrated palpably when just after Kinzie is kidnapped and the Boss is fending off aliens on the ship with Gat they monetarily forget Kinzie is not there and asks for her help with something (where the weakest point on the ship dragging them towards the sun is) and Gat has to remind them that Kinzie is kidnapped and can't help. the Boss gets way pissed that they forgot, and it shows how much they rely on Kinzie.

So when the Boss rescues Kinzie from the 50s nightmare and she socks them for joking about her poodle skirtt the Boss is just relieved that they have Kinzie back and let's it go. They are hardly gonna punish their most important homie just for that.
 
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