I don't own Agents of Mayhem, it looked too random, so I never got it.
Which makes me wonder if marshals are the ones who run the Santo ileso's university and if they send masculine debt collectors for students.
Edit: a dystopian government is also a possibility ಠ_ಠ
Hi! Uh, creator of that reddit thread here that kinda blew up. It's been a hot decade since I was really properly active in an old school forum, so I'm not gonna be able to make a well formatted post with quotes and stuff.
Anyway, to address some things: yes, the post is "mean spirited" because I got kinda fed up with people ranting about half truths they heard from a secondary source or pure assumptions that they've made. And not like logical assumptions based on all available material, but "character X looks like Y, so they obviously have to act exactly like I imagine somebody who is Y to act". The "titles" of these kind of "chapters" the post has are for the most part either almost 1:1 quotes or paraphrased from actual comments, posts and video titles I've seen the past few days. So if I was playing into internet stereotypes, then because those internet stereotypes have very real origins.
To the point of the discrepancy when it comes to realism between the characters motivations and the Marshall's sci-fi equipment: My point was not realism, but relevancy, and sci-fi is incredibly relevant. The biggest move franchise, the MCU, leans heavily on the sci-fi side. It's not realistic for people to build a criminal empire for paying of student debts. They'd do small crimes at best. But it is relevant that student debt is almost impossible to pay off with legitimate means unless you get incredibly lucky.
@linkfire12 your point about writers not insisting on the relevancy of their media doesn't really much make sense, as most fictional stories have some kind of relevancy to the time of their creations. It just often doesn't seem obvious because the issues or themes they talk about are often still relevant for decades or centuries to come. If, for example, racism had actually disappeared a couple hundred years into the future and somebody stumbled across a complete collection of Star Trek, like 80% of the episodes would seem to have boring, contrived plots to them because the themes of racism and discrimation would seem alien to them. Similarly, many stories dealing with contemporary issues and themes will seem contrived or ridiculous to audiences that have never had to deal with them. If somebody never went to college, or went to college before the economic collapse of 2008, or comes from a country where student loans don't exist or aren't as cripplingly high, that theme will seem boring, contrived and ridiculous to them. You likely also covered at least one Shakespeare play in school and, unless you had a terrible teacher, you had to cover a ton of history because a lot of the content in his plays doesn't make sense without knowing the historical background because that is what they are relating to. Of course, in general, we can understand even older novels and poetry because first of all almost everybody receives a history education of some form, but also because we have a lot of media depicting these times and themes, thus solidifying them into our broader cultural understanding. The reason why student loans or other very new topics and themes seem so arbitrary and contrived to many is because they are a recent phenomena. They haven't had time to manifest themselves into our culture beyond those who have to deal with them personally.
Anyway, to address some things: yes, the post is "mean spirited" because I got kinda fed up with people ranting about half truths they heard from a secondary source or pure assumptions that they've made. And not like logical assumptions based on all available material, but "character X looks like Y, so they obviously have to act exactly like I imagine somebody who is Y to act". The "titles" of these kind of "chapters" the post has are for the most part either almost 1:1 quotes or paraphrased from actual comments, posts and video titles I've seen the past few days. So if I was playing into internet stereotypes, then because those internet stereotypes have very real origins.
To the point of the discrepancy when it comes to realism between the characters motivations and the Marshall's sci-fi equipment: My point was not realism, but relevancy, and sci-fi is incredibly relevant. The biggest move franchise, the MCU, leans heavily on the sci-fi side. It's not realistic for people to build a criminal empire for paying of student debts. They'd do small crimes at best. But it is relevant that student debt is almost impossible to pay off with legitimate means unless you get incredibly lucky.
@linkfire12 your point about writers not insisting on the relevancy of their media doesn't really much make sense, as most fictional stories have some kind of relevancy to the time of their creations. It just often doesn't seem obvious because the issues or themes they talk about are often still relevant for decades or centuries to come. If, for example, racism had actually disappeared a couple hundred years into the future and somebody stumbled across a complete collection of Star Trek, like 80% of the episodes would seem to have boring, contrived plots to them because the themes of racism and discrimation would seem alien to them. Similarly, many stories dealing with contemporary issues and themes will seem contrived or ridiculous to audiences that have never had to deal with them. If somebody never went to college, or went to college before the economic collapse of 2008, or comes from a country where student loans don't exist or aren't as cripplingly high, that theme will seem boring, contrived and ridiculous to them. You likely also covered at least one Shakespeare play in school and, unless you had a terrible teacher, you had to cover a ton of history because a lot of the content in his plays doesn't make sense without knowing the historical background because that is what they are relating to. Of course, in general, we can understand even older novels and poetry because first of all almost everybody receives a history education of some form, but also because we have a lot of media depicting these times and themes, thus solidifying them into our broader cultural understanding. The reason why student loans or other very new topics and themes seem so arbitrary and contrived to many is because they are a recent phenomena. They haven't had time to manifest themselves into our culture beyond those who have to deal with them personally.
Saints row shouldn't be about relatability. It started as a ghetto gangbanger shooter and it should have remained that way, otherwise it resembles every other poxy game out in the market. As it happens, by doing this current approach, Volition has now made Saints Row generic in look and feel.
Saints Row is a videogame and was never realistic. Kevin is a popular DJ and if I am not wrong works for or worked for IDOLS the gang that show themselves everywhere,wearing all bright colors and called IDOLS also I am guessing they control certain parts of the city so they are not hidden and are known to people so no I dont agree Kevin looks perfect okay maybe he should wear a shirt but still
Where is the goddamn gameplay lol Its like they are doing it on purpose ! If we all tweet at them or something would that help lol
HA! That whiteboard in the video you showed is hilarious! "Things a criminal empire needs." Holy shit that's funny!
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to respond.
First impressions or concerns about the direction of a franchise based on advertising isn't "half-truths"; it is simply a critical response in regards to the developer and publishers job of marketing the game to interested consumers. If they fail to do that in an effective way, people will express their first impressions in a negative light. The titles of the segments of your reddit post seem very innocuous to me, and hardly read as overtly toxic or mean-spirited statements. Saying that Eli looks like Steve Urkel in a joking manner hardly qualifies for personal insults over a fictional character.
I thought my point was fairly clear, there is a stark difference between undercurrent themes, essential drives and conflicts that have existed in humanity since time millennia, subtle influences from the existence of the writer, than the idea that social relevancy trumps all when it comes to compelling storytelling. Telling someone that they aren't allowed to explore the boundaries of fiction and writing because of where they were born, and that they can't do anything to research, learn and express a fictional world beyond themselves, is extremely stifling to creativity and some of the best works of fiction ever created. Truth isn't the basis of fiction, it's to create worlds or fantasies to the strongest effect of the human mind unbound by relevance of reality.
Your second point is a bit strange to me, because I never looked at a depiction of a historical era, or a highly regarded historical piece of media, and immediately considered it contrived or ridiculous for dealing with or presenting itself as an element of its time of creation. The most highly regarded historical works are treated as such due to the timeless nature of their fiction, and their ability to make the reader think for themselves and interpret for the benefit of their own mind.
The idea of student loans itself isn't what anyone has an issue with. Nor is the supposed 'newness" of finanicial struggle in the name of education (and the hardships older generations went through). What people are frustrated with is the idea that "cultural" relevancy is being pushed opposed to what people adored about the series, from people who loved both the first and last two games.
The portrayal of completely non-relatable characters in a niche that is completely unrepresented in the gaming sphere (gang culture and conflict) or the simultaneously non-relatable fantastical satirical portrayal of an open world game with an emphasis on fun, and the fantasy of creating and playing your character the way you want to without the restriction of reality.
Even GTA barely represented the niche that Saints Row 1 and 2 did, and it's not unreasonable that over a decade later, and no other games even attempting it, people would love a new and improved game handling such themes and fantasies, unconstrained by reality or "relevancy".
Dystopia seemed like the implication to me from the games' summary, with "In a world rife with crime, where lawless factions fight for power" and it felt confirmed to me when Eli, the nerd of the group was bothered more by the Panteros' lack of professionalism than the fact they commited a murder.
Edit: The student loans thing makes sense with this theory aswell, how many people must yet cannot pay rent on account of work not being an option for them due to current events? For all we know this bunch is trying to pay them off way past graduation.
Edit 2: I would like to apologize if my speculating is bothering people, I'm trying to focus less on the outrage and more what we've either got or are hinted at to be getting, a lot of IP's we take for granted started out as risks for their companies and I'm willing to gamble on this one.
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