Gabe Newell Q&A on Reddit about the paid mods.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/
M
Minimaul
Guest
It seems the shitstorm that has been kicked up has at least got his attention. I'm watching this with interest!
Gaming industry is going to a dark era considering there are fanboys out there who keep licking their idolized company's greedy ass and support them blindly..
I think Patch/Fix will be a paid thing in the future.
Oh well, the "fuck you" move has begun directed to PC community's face... Sometimes I think PC games better off without XLive and Steam like back in the day..
I think Patch/Fix will be a paid thing in the future.
Oh well, the "fuck you" move has begun directed to PC community's face... Sometimes I think PC games better off without XLive and Steam like back in the day..
M
Minimaul
Guest
This isn't going to happen. The whole idea is nuts, and it's not in the best interests of the publisher or the developer.
Well, he didn't say much interesting, but I think he was limited on time.
I think the problem here is a fundamental misunderstanding of how modding works.
Valve have had a lot of success with paid for hats, etc and they think this is the next logical step.
There's a big difference though. Making a hat is one person coming up with an idea, firing up 3DS Max or Maya, modelling a hat, and submitting it to Valve.
Making a traditional mod is different. Making a traditional mod is a collaborative process - you take community designed tools, shared knowledge and the experience of the whole community to come up with something new or to make an existing mod better.
When someone commercialises that new mod, it breaks the process. With an entirely free mod community, users can take existing mods and tear them apart to learn how changes were achieved - you can't do the same with a paid mod. It stops the sharing of information because one person now has a commercial benefit to keeping it secret.
Would people make posts like https://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum...ing-in-gat-out-of-hell.9360/page-3#post-69544 and https://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum...ing-in-gat-out-of-hell.9360/page-4#post-71013 explaining how a mod that someone has to pay for works? I don't think so.
Exactly the kind of big mods that Valve think this should benefit are the mods that would suffer the most - most big mods are a big shared process containing the work of not just one or two people, but tens of people, and building on the work and knowledge of many many more.
Look at GoTR or GoS - they contain mods from many people to make a better whole.
Look at https://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum...saints-expanded-arsenal-mod-666-edition.9040/ - based on an old SRIV mod, and incorporating the work of several people.
That's what paid mods will break - the collaboration of the modding community is vital to how it works, and that's what this has the potential to destroy.
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Well I think one thing that we can sorta-maybe-kinda-safely-assume from the Q&A is that Steam is going to ride out the shitstorm and hope for a light at the end of the tunnel.
The chances of them going "we fucked up, so we're rolling back and removing the paid workshop" sounds unlikely now.
The chances of them going "we fucked up, so we're rolling back and removing the paid workshop" sounds unlikely now.
My response to the people supporting this train-wreck of an idea. (Often spouting off crap like "it will lead to better mods" or "it will let modding community grow")
In my opinion a much better option would be a system where users can donate to the Modder in question via Patreon or a similar service. Lastly you've got to look at this from view point of the average gamer. PC gamers often have to drop anywhere between $500-to-$1000 dollars for a decent rig, while the average game costs anywhere between $45-$75 AND there's often DLC for said products. Mods on the other hand are free and some of them can dramatically improve the game (Gentlemen of the Row\Steelport, Sky-UI, Goon Mod and SMOD to name a few) while other go as far as to pretty much be unofficial sequels\expansion packs. This works twofold since A. it often entices people to spend money on said game and\or rig and B. it often means free promotion for the PC port. So in reality Valve is not only pissing off their existing consumer base but their also scaring off potential customers with shit like this, Greenlight and Early Access.
In my opinion a much better option would be a system where users can donate to the Modder in question via Patreon or a similar service. Lastly you've got to look at this from view point of the average gamer. PC gamers often have to drop anywhere between $500-to-$1000 dollars for a decent rig, while the average game costs anywhere between $45-$75 AND there's often DLC for said products. Mods on the other hand are free and some of them can dramatically improve the game (Gentlemen of the Row\Steelport, Sky-UI, Goon Mod and SMOD to name a few) while other go as far as to pretty much be unofficial sequels\expansion packs. This works twofold since A. it often entices people to spend money on said game and\or rig and B. it often means free promotion for the PC port. So in reality Valve is not only pissing off their existing consumer base but their also scaring off potential customers with shit like this, Greenlight and Early Access.
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The reason why this "New way to support Workshop creators" happened is not because Valve and Bethesda want to support creative modders it happened because with this system they get money from dlc they don't even need to make.
I wish i had read "Steam workshop now supporting paid big ass mods" (Let's hope that with "paid mods" they meant: total conversions/big ass mods/compilations), because if some kind of "paid mod" system,
being it an MMO/TF2 "buy the items you want" Style or an "pay for this and that mod", it will be overloaded with really FUCKING SHITTY Mods, excuse me for the language but that's the most reasonable way i can explain that..
Actually there's another way to explain what i mean: The "modder" edits the game's best pistol, by changing the silver bits of the weapon's paintjob to red bits and then, charge R$ 15,50, i don't know how much that is in dollars but, for students like me, this is quite expensive for shitty skins that will be MASS UPLOADED, like it's already did with Counter Strike: Global Offensive were the only different weapon you can have is an silenced AR-15 Rifle winch for me, is non-exciting (i'm tottaly O.K with the TF2's commerce system, which you pay for some different, realistic or joke weapons and accessories) winch there are no new weapons, just skins that sometimes one looks like the other, i'm don't know about You and the other guys on Steam, but i'd rather pay R$ 15,50 for a new modeled Pistol for my game than an skin for an weapon i already played with a thousand of times.
As for the "Total Conversions" (example: Black Mesa Source, for HL2) and "Big Ass Mods" (any mods that add more content to the game, being it cars or weapons, without modifying the game's original files), if i had created an Total Conversion, and it was of good quality, if there was an option i would like to sell it to the community, but as for "Big Ass mods" i would totally NOT pay for "Gentlemen of the Row", if it was available to purchase of course, you may think "why? don't you wish to support the modders?" or "gtfo gay fag bitch go 2 hell u saints rwo hatr go 2 hel lbitch",but what i want to say with "would totally NOT pay" is:
"I would never "gib ma mony" for purchasing an compilation made of free mods, that were distributed as free content just because it is packed in a big-round-gorgeous-oily self-installing box of eternal-mod-pleasure, and i know people would loooooove to charge you for their "original pack of mods" when you can just download the separate mods for.. how can i say that? oh... for Fucking Free!"
Wow, that's it i'm finished here. Bye!
UPDATE: I just got notified via Steam, that "Skyrim's paid mod feature" have been disabled, that's very
... or is it 
?
http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop#announcements/detail/208632365253244218 <---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
being it an MMO/TF2 "buy the items you want" Style or an "pay for this and that mod", it will be overloaded with really FUCKING SHITTY Mods, excuse me for the language but that's the most reasonable way i can explain that..
Actually there's another way to explain what i mean: The "modder" edits the game's best pistol, by changing the silver bits of the weapon's paintjob to red bits and then, charge R$ 15,50, i don't know how much that is in dollars but, for students like me, this is quite expensive for shitty skins that will be MASS UPLOADED, like it's already did with Counter Strike: Global Offensive were the only different weapon you can have is an silenced AR-15 Rifle winch for me, is non-exciting (i'm tottaly O.K with the TF2's commerce system, which you pay for some different, realistic or joke weapons and accessories) winch there are no new weapons, just skins that sometimes one looks like the other, i'm don't know about You and the other guys on Steam, but i'd rather pay R$ 15,50 for a new modeled Pistol for my game than an skin for an weapon i already played with a thousand of times.
As for the "Total Conversions" (example: Black Mesa Source, for HL2) and "Big Ass Mods" (any mods that add more content to the game, being it cars or weapons, without modifying the game's original files), if i had created an Total Conversion, and it was of good quality, if there was an option i would like to sell it to the community, but as for "Big Ass mods" i would totally NOT pay for "Gentlemen of the Row", if it was available to purchase of course, you may think "why? don't you wish to support the modders?" or "gtfo gay fag bitch go 2 hell u saints rwo hatr go 2 hel lbitch",but what i want to say with "would totally NOT pay" is:
"I would never "gib ma mony" for purchasing an compilation made of free mods, that were distributed as free content just because it is packed in a big-round-gorgeous-oily self-installing box of eternal-mod-pleasure, and i know people would loooooove to charge you for their "original pack of mods" when you can just download the separate mods for.. how can i say that? oh... for Fucking Free!"
Wow, that's it i'm finished here. Bye!
UPDATE: I just got notified via Steam, that "Skyrim's paid mod feature" have been disabled, that's very
... or is it ?http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop#announcements/detail/208632365253244218 <---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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M
Minimaul
Guest
It seems they actually listened. Wow!