What do you think about the Boss of the Third Street Saints? *Spoiler alert!*

[AuldWolf]

As for it always being about revenge, 4 kind of changed that, while the boss and the saints want revenge against zinyak, their goals in 4 is more or less freedom from his tyranny, both for themselves, and the human race.

Exactly!

Some seem to want exactly the same game over and over with only mild variations. IV was a very different experience indeed. And it's funny, because the boss even wanted to free the Zin from oppression, which he rants about whilst fighting Zinyak. Perhaps he's grown a conscience, or perhaps it's a statement about the nature of video game heroes for our amusement.

But suffice it to say, it's definitely a very different experience than prior Saints Row games, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who understands that IV brought changes to the table.

 

[Mist3475]

As for it always being about revenge, 4 kind of changed that, while the boss and the saints want revenge against zinyak, their goals in 4 is more or less freedom from his tyranny, both for themselves, and the human race.

What human race?

There are times when I just wish overly argumentative types would save face and choose the wiser path -- to not post.

There are times I wish smug little twits would keep their useless opinions to themselves.

Okay, so, where in the game does the boss say "Now, you must all bow down to me!"?

They bow to him as a sign of respect for the incredible feat of overthrowing Zinyak. The rest is headcanon unless explicitly stated within the game. Speaking of being explicitly stated -- you can play the fight with Zinyak and listen for yourself, the boss is very intent on freeing the Zin from slavery.

Headcanon doesn't make for a valid argument.

Well if you're too dense to read what's happening right in front of you, and how the game outright tells you that the Saints take over the Zin from the very beginning that's not my problem.

Where is this said, precisely?

Headcanon doesn't make for a valid argument.

...
You're trolling me, right?

That's the most throwaway excuse I've ever heard.

"This scene of the game doesn't fit my Saints Row fan-fictions, so I'm just going to say that the writers were incompetent. This scene doesn't fit either. Oh, heck, let's just pretend the game didn't happen and that my fan-fiction is the only valid canon."

You're silly.

So, ultimately, I can sum up my rebuttal as thus:

Headcanon doesn't make for a valid argument.

I love the irony here considering your interpretation of that scene is pure headcanon.
Do you even know what the term "cutscene incompetence" means? It has nothing to do with the writers.

 

[[V] IdolNinja]

There are times I wish smug little twits would keep their useless opinions to themselves.

Well if you're too dense to read what's happening right in front of you,

You are way out of line. Dont' make me warn you again.

 

[Tommety]

What human race?

Well if you're too dense to read what's happening right in front of you, and how the game outright tells you that the Saints take over the Zin from the very beginning that's not my problem.

All that is said is "when scholars look back on the fall of the Zin empire, this will be the defining moment." Never is the rise of the 'Saints Empire' mentioned or even implied.
You only have to kill the Emperor to have an Empire fall, or did the Rebel Alliance have to enslave the Empire before it was destroyed as well?

Agreed, I'm quite sure they did not intend on it being a liberation of the Zin race until Zinyak made it pretty clear he enforced their servitude through fear, not through heartfelt respect and compassion.

 

[Haganu]

All that is said is "when scholars look back on the fall of the Zin empire, this will be the defining moment." Never is the rise of the 'Saints Empire' mentioned or even implied.

Yes there is. At the very end: "And so the Saints Empire began..." or something.

 

[Tommety]

Yes there is. At the very end: "And so the Saints Empire began..." or something.

Just looked up a complete cut-scene video to double check, nowhere is the Saints Empire mentioned. And everywhere else it's all about brining Zinyak down or ripping his head off.

ADDIT:
Perhaps I'm misreading your post.
With 'at the very end' do you mean 'at the very end' of the cut-scene I was referring to or the actual story?

Because then I must ask if this is the 'good ending' you refer to or the 'bad' one, since I have only seen the 'bad' ending once.

ADDIT ADDIT:
Seems you are indeed referring to the 'bad' ending.
Well, if Deep Silver/Volition take a (to me) surprise decision and actually go with this one, then you are indeed correct that the reigns of enslavement merely changed hands.

But regardless, my response was to it being proposed that this Saints Empire thing was explicitly pointed out to you at the (very) beginning of the game, I'd say the final cut-scene (that may or may not even occur based on how you played the game) doesn't qualify as that.

 

[PaintedFaceXIII]

Meh, to be honest this sounds like more of an implication than anything. And really, only way for the Saints to be kicked out from the Zin Empire is if Volition themselves say so. Really with the technology that they have these days, they can bring back most of the old friends who don't have a huge impact on the storyline (such as saving Oleg and Josh but unable to save Aisha). Really, it just depends on how Saints Row 5 is like. And despite my irritation for 3 and a little bit of 4, I know with the direction they're going, and it saddens me that they won't go back in the direction of SR2, because of the newly acquired fanbase pushes them further in the other direction. Plus it makes the Boss more likable to a larger audience than our lovable sociopath badass in 2.

If you can't tell where I'm going with how I like my boss. Crazy, psychopathic woman (Cause I rather have a woman's ass to look at), who kicks ass, takes names, and her good points are the fact that she takes care of her homies, in and out of the gang. (which in my mind means she's friends with Troy Bradshaw still).

I miss the SR2 path, and I know that a new city was necessary but you killed my heavy customization, gave me high-end clothes instead of low-end clothing in 3 and have to listen to all the 'puckish rogue' comments in 4. Your character loses their craziness once you put them in something heavily stylish....though that's my opinion.

 

[kraidy117]

Yes there is. At the very end: "And so the Saints Empire began..." or something.

Depends on your ending. While true Jane Austin says that, it only happens in the ending when the Boss does take full control of the Empire and does not give a crap about anyone else. That is why doing all the LMs change the ending. By hanging out with your crew, bonding and learning that you can still have power and not be a tyrant like Zinyak, the Boss decides to ask the most important question. Can Earth be saved. This leads to the discovery of time travel along with releasing Jane Austin. Who like Zinyak, Boss is a big fan of.

It's also possible with Kinzies help to restore the simulation so the people still stuck don't get brain damage(or at least not severe) and are freed, which includes the rest of the humans. With the vast array of Zin technology, the time machine, Kinzie probably able to restore the sim and change it from being a tool of torture into something more nice and the Boss being a better leader. The Zin Empire has a chance to be something new instead of being an Empire built out of fear to Zinyak.

 

[PaintedFaceXIII]

Depends on your ending. While true Jane Austin says that, it only happens in the ending when the Boss does take full control of the Empire and does not give a crap about anyone else. That is why doing all the LMs change the ending. By hanging out with your crew, bonding and learning that you can still have power and not be a tyrant like Zinyak, the Boss decides to ask the most important question. Can Earth be saved. This leads to the discovery of time travel along with releasing Jane Austin. Who like Zinyak, Boss is a big fan of.

It's also possible with Kinzies help to restore the simulation so the people still stuck don't get brain damage(or at least not severe) and are freed, which includes the rest of the humans. With the vast array of Zin technology, the time machine, Kinzie probably able to restore the sim and change it from being a tool of torture into something more nice and the Boss being a better leader. The Zin Empire has a chance to be something new instead of being an Empire built out of fear to Zinyak.

To be honest I'm still giggling right now with the thought that the Simulation is going to be rebuilt for a better tomorrow, even if they can't save Earth, they can save many people and reorganize and repopulate the Human race elsewhere, though to be honest the joke would be what would happen when the Saints start to get old..their brains are downloaded onto the Simulation and they can come back....


AS MURDERBOTS!!

 

[DataSnake]

What human race?

1. Kinzie says the Zin have already abducted the entire population of every major city. That's a whole lot of people.
2. During the mech sequences, they make multiple mentions of how there are a whole lot of pods everywhere.
3. Call Kinzie and Shaundi as homies at the same time, and Kinzie will explicitly state that the Zin captured enough people to repopulate the human race.