What'll you do with Mesh Tools?

[Tommy Vercetti]

Hehe.
Yeah, developers do have some strange ideas, but I do stand by my opinion in that there has to be an interest from both parties (modders & developers alike) to get the wheels turning.
I would say that I have possibly marginally slightly "above average" modding skills that I have gained from modding video games over the last 10ish years.

Your average Joe does not have this knowledge and willingness to see things through, so therefore needs some basic steps on how to get some of the simpler things done.

Many of these simple things could include things like this:
http://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum/index.php?threads/remove-pistol-silencer.1921/
and
http://www.saintsrowmods.com/forum/...-in-a-vehicle-indepth-detail.1941/#post-16922

These rather simple things can cause entry level modders to just give up because it is not worth the hassle for them.

This site has only 25!! discussions listed in "Guides and Tutorials" page
and 285!! in "Get Help/Troubleshooting" page.

We need our "Guides and Tutorials" forum to look a little more like this...
http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Category:Tutorials

It is VERY important to pass on knowledge you have obtained, so all may learn from it.
Even if you think "everyone" knows it already, because many indeed do not.

Anyone. Any thoughts on this "ranting and raving" i seem to be doing for some reason?

 

[[V] IdolNinja]

Any thoughts on this "ranting and raving" i seem to be doing for some reason?

My thoughts are that you should start doing it if you feel that strongly about it instead of complaining about it in multiple threads.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

My thoughts are that you should start doing it if you feel that strongly about it instead of complaining about it in multiple threads.

Hehehe,.

*sigh*

You know what?
I think you are right.

 

[tonicmole]

As Hilary Clinton once said, it takes a village. Building an even better community can't hurt, but keep in mind that GTA 4, and Skyrim sold more copies in one day then the Saints Row series has sold it's whole lifetime. Frankly there will never be tools for Saints Row the Third. Mainly because releasing them now would possibly slow sales of SR 4 this August. So, we're now hoping SR 4 get's modding tools.....and sales like GTA despite GTA 5 launching a month or two after.....and SR 4 may or may not be merely a fleshed out DLC pack meant for SRTT....rather then a fully realized sequel......and Koch may have rushed it to recoup the cost of buying it......and....to beat GTA 5 to the market....and.....we are screwed.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

As Hilary Clinton once said, it takes a village....

Agreed, everything starts out small, but everything has the possibility for great potential too!

Not to burst My own bubble here,
but we ( mainly I ) seem to dragging this topic off track.

If I had mesh tools, I would "attempt" to fix the simple things like NPC/player skeleton rigging, as it always bugs me how the jaw shortens in length when you crouch
or how the latissimus dorsi (armpit muscle) does not join up properly with the tricep on the main character... ...yes I am a "fitness freak" and notice these little things. (I also watched Rambo).

Giving planes and helicopters retractable landing gear, editing Steelport so it doesn't feel so... ...rushed/crummy.

Just adding the "finishing touches" that the developers failed to do.

Thinks like that, ya dig?

 

[Rai Spellfang]

It's probably a bit too nihilistic to say that Saints Row 4 is going to be shoddy and crummy.

Volition has a tendency to start work on the next game right when the previous one is finished. Or "finished" in the case of SRTT.

Despite the collapse of THQ and the piecemeal sale of assets, they've still been developing the next game. They tend to be pretty decent about criticism, and take those sorts of faults into account when building the next game. Mesh tools are still a bit of a fool's bolt, (as are the "dicks on everything", which is a shame. Being the Oprah of dicks would be hilarious) but considering the main complaint people have with SRTT is "feels rushed and unfinished", I think they're probably going to put more time into polishing Saints Row 4.

Is it a guarantee that it'll be awesome? No. However, considering that Koch seems to embrace the wackiness and over-the-top shenanigans of the series, and was heavily interested in acquiring it, it's only fair that we should at least humour taking them at their word.

 

[War Raichu]

I can't see SR4 being nearly as "bad" as SR3 (using that term incredibly loosely, since it really wasn't), given that presumably it's in the same situation as SR2 was. Rather than feeling like a fresh start with new assets (drastic graphical improvement, more stable engine), it should logically just have a ton of new features and a new story on top of the established system in the previous game. After all, the period between SR1 and 2 was a mere 2 years, while the gap between SR2 and 3 was 3, Now if number 4 comes out this year, it'll be another 2 year gap, so I feel like we're going to get a lightning-strikes-twice event.

Besides, isn't Koch supposedly huge over in Europe? I can't see the 22 mil they spent on Volition having such an immediate effect on them that they need to get a speedy return; they'll hopefully give SR4 the time in the oven it deserves.

 

[Pawper]

What are the sales figures for SRTT exactly? I'm wondering how it lines up with other games with mod tools like Dragon Age and Witcher.

Anyway, I don't think it's completely unreasonable that they would release mod tools in the future. It's certainly the right kind of game for it, being open-world and everything. The only letdown I have is that the NPCs aren't derivative of the character customization system like the PCs are, which is the case for games like Dragon Age (well, sorta, important NPCs use the general bodies but have custom head meshes), Oblivion and Skyrim. I'm hoping they go that route with SR4.

I think what would be worth trying would be to try and contact Volition in some way and just ask-- "Can you release SR3 and SR4 mod tools and why?"

I don't think there's reason to believe SR3 mod tools would take away SR4 sales. They just recently released the SR3 complete pack.

 

[Haganu]

With mesh tools I'd probably port Gensokyo to the game.

 

[Gondar]

We'd have beter luck with it happening for SR4.. mod tools would likely involve designing the game around it, and moreso we're talking about tools that are designed for internal use and are cryptic and usually include compiled not-allowed code. For instance, if a game uses havok or physX for physics, you typically bake some physics info into the models, and you can't redistribute the stuff that does that, it's protected code. Does your game use Bink? (most do). Then you can't redistribute 90% of your stuff because that SDK gets everywhere.

They'd have to design it in from the start, making a separate toolset for end-users. There's no profit in it either, remember.


What annoys me though is it'd hardly be a hassle for them to 'leak' a few of the formats, saying what the specific details of the models are, and then let people write their own code for it. Same for the car variant tables and all that baked in stuff.

It's very likely though that with models, a lot is baked in so it can't be made from scratch thanks to physics calculations and thus they can't just give us the format details... and with the others it may actually be encrypted somehow meaning they can't do that without some actual legal concerns.

Still, that's likely the biggest reason we don't have mesh tools, is the physics. It's not an uncommon issue either. They could probably manage some sanitized binary compiler plugins, but they'd only work for whatever studio they use (and ONLY that studio), and it'd be an issue.


However, if we did have them and I somehow could model, I'd work on perhaps altering the map to add to it, maybe port in some areas from Stillwater, then start working on the cars from that game too...